STEREOSCOPE
Welcome to the STEREOSCOPE Podcast, the place where we dive deep into everything immersive video. From VR180, 3D360, Spatial Video, Volumetric to Photogrammetry, we cover it all. Our show is dedicated to covering the latest news, best practices, and workflows that are essential to the immersive video community. The VR industry has been a major force behind the rapid growth of this medium and we are excited to showcase how it impacts immersive video. Every episode, we feature two videos created by our talented community members to inspire and showcase the amazing work being done in this space. Join us on the next phase of cinema as we gaze through the STEREOSCOPE.
STEREOSCOPE
The Next Era: "The Talent Stealer" with Jared Payne, Android XR, James Cameron & VR180 editing w/SpatialCut
What if the world of cinema could be completely revolutionized by immersive technology? Join us as we uncover this potential with Jared Payne, the actor and co-producer of the sci-fi VR film "The Talent Stealer." Jared shares fascinating insights into the challenges and breakthroughs that come with crafting a narrative in the VR180 format, offering listeners an inside look at the cutting-edge techniques that are reshaping the film industry's landscape. Discover how his team skillfully navigated the complexities of multi-camera setups and collaborative creativity, emphasizing the vibrant spirit of the Vancouver film community.
In this milestone 10th episode of the Stereoscope podcast, we dissect the latest whispers and leaks that are stirring the VR and AR industry. From Canon's intriguing patent of AR VR glasses—which might signal a move into a full immersive camera platform—to Apple's potential integration of PSVR 2 controllers into the Vision Pro, we explore the ripple effects these innovations could have on technology enthusiasts and creators alike. Plus, we spotlight a game-changing in-headset video editing app SpatialCut, designed to enhance content creation within the Apple Vision Pro ecosystem, streamlining processes and fueling creativity.
As we navigate the evolving landscape of immersive technology, we peel back the layers of Google's collaboration with Samsung on Project MooHan and the Android XR platform. Explore the role of AI, especially Google's Gemini, and its implications for XR apps amid concerns about AI’s influence on the film industry. With Google's strategic resources like YouTube, we ponder the competitive dynamics at play as Samsung and Google position themselves against Apple's Vision Pro and MetaQuest. This episode is a captivating exploration of the technological advances and industry dynamics shaping the future of VR and AR.
Hi, welcome to the Stereoscope podcast number 10. We finally got to number 10. I've, like it's been over a year now since we did the podcast, started the podcast, but here we are. We have a great show for you today. So much crazy good news. It seems like the industry is really hitting a stride. Here we have Jared Payne, actor and co-producer of the Talent. Stealer is going to be an interview that we have in the second half. That's fantastic. The discussion really really dove into some of the intricacies of shooting a full feature in immersive VR180. So how are we guys doing today? Doing?
Speaker 2:great.
Speaker 1:John Anthony. Pretty good, pretty great, all right, so we're just going to launch right into it, because we got a lot of news that we got to get through today and so. But there is some really cool stuff happening. We've got Canon's AR VR glasses patent, got a lot of news that we got to get through today and so but there is some really cool stuff happening, we've got Canon's AR VR glasses patent, and so this one sort of came very much out of nowhere. I was not expecting this in the slightest.
Speaker 2:We've got a patent leak for some sort of VR headset that Canon canon's putting out. What do you guys think I mean super interesting. And they're definitely targeting, like literally or specifically calling out, the avp, as this is supposed to be a more affordable option, which is always a funny thing to say when all you have to show is a drawing. Yeah, but you know, we'll see what they do and if it's accurate, then awesome.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So one thing that I think we definitely should make clear is that a patent does not equal a product. I think most people in the industry know that, but I think some people get sort of carried away sometimes. But it does feel like that there is a product in the market that this like. Okay, I'm just going to come out and say I think this is not going to be like a consumer headset. You're not going to be able to play games on this thing. I I figure that this is most likely just a part of their immersive camera system.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it wouldn't surprise me if they make it specifically to live preview from their cameras. Yeah, could be something like that.
Speaker 1:Okay, so Apple Vision Pro may get support for PSVR 2 controllers. Now, this is interesting because it was something that I definitely figured would happen and in retrospect I probably should have realized it was going to be Sony. You predicted it.
Speaker 2:Well, I just Everybody kind of felt like controllers had to happen.
Speaker 1:They had to. And Apple, you know it's not part of their ecosystem because it's not clean. It's not their ethos.
Speaker 3:It's not ethos, it's not. Yeah, there's no development.
Speaker 1:But I just know how VR games work as well as I do. There was no way that you weren't going to have controllers, because they make games so much easier to design for and they're so much easier to port as well. I've thought it was going to be some third-party manufacturer. There's actually another company that's been working on third-party platform agnostic motion controllers, but they haven't released their product yet. What do you guys think?
Speaker 2:I mean, this was only slightly unsurprising to me, only because, as long as I've had a MacBook, the one gaming controller that you could easily pair to your MacBook was a PS3 controller. Yeah, so I was like, well, it kind of makes sense. Maybe they have this.
Speaker 1:You can even buy a PS5 controller in the Apple Store Right Like in stores and on their website, yeah.
Speaker 2:So it kind of makes sense. But I also see why, you know, apple didn't bother doing this, because they were really focused on a new interface paradigm and not doing gaming. Yeah, and similar to how, like you know what was the job's famous line like if you're using a stylus, you've already failed. You know, meanwhile was three, four years later they had the apple pencil out. Don't call it a stylist, but it makes sense because you have to establish these paradigms first before you come in and sort of dilute them. And a controller dilutes the eye-tracking pinching paradigm, which is awesome. That is probably the top thing about the AVP. That I think is amazing.
Speaker 1:All right Now. This one. I like this. I went searching for some news this week, despite the fact that I probably didn't need to because there's so much big stuff, but this one I sort of stumbled upon into a Reddit post from a developer that made an in-headset immersive video editing app for Apple Vision Pro, and at first it was just spatial content but now includes BR180, includes support for the Canon immersive platform. So what do you guys think?
Speaker 3:I think it's a cool game changer Awesome.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, it's absolutely. I mean, it's sort of surprising that Apple didn't have something like this baked in themselves, right yeah.
Speaker 2:I mean really based on Apple. It's not surprising. It's not surprising, yet this is something they would come out with like 10 years from now, just because they're like okay, now that we've got everything else done, here's some creator tools. I wonder why.
Speaker 1:I'm frustrated by that company.
Speaker 2:Well, because I mean they are consumer as much as they try to play off as a like we make professional products. They really stopped focusing on the professional some time ago. Whenever they started making the trash can Mac Pro, that's when they started sort of falling off.
Speaker 1:I think it was probably when they started printing iPhones into gold.
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, exactly, because I mean, the money is in the consumer space. But this is awesome, like the fact that you can like, not bother with, like you capture over here. Then you go to your PC and you get some stuff you know generated and you got to go back into headsets see if that worked. Blah, blah, blah being able to just bring everything into your headset and go direct create your.
Speaker 1:It just skips several steps and just would make everybody's life easier. I mean even the ability to preview VR180 footage that you've shot as you're editing it. I mean it's huge. It's huge. The developer was even saying that they're working on an ability to port maybe an XML file, some other sort of implementation, your edit into professional tools so you could do like.
Speaker 2:I could very much see an immersive editor doing like a light edit in headset. Your rough cut, your rough cut.
Speaker 1:And then, when you need to get nitty gritty into it, do it on your rig. I mean, you could even probably just keep your AVP on and then look at your Mac and bring up Resolve.
Speaker 3:It just takes an existing function that you have in your iPhone or in your camera phone and makes it a thing in your spatial. Your AVP is no longer just this passive consumption device, it's more like a. It's an amazing, cool thing this Red Eater did.
Speaker 2:And kudos. I can actually see Apple just buying this like oh, buying this guy out, yeah, buying this guy out.
Speaker 1:This would be like final yeah, honestly Final cut vision or something like that, and from what we're seeing already, it's looking pretty good.
Speaker 2:good job guy like yeah, yeah, well done and thanks for using the word spatial well, ironically, right, this is because it that was. My first question was like oh, is it only for spatial videos? But you recently added the the ability to vr 180, and so it's already kind of gonna make things more confusing for people to understand the difference between spatial and MR7.
Speaker 1:What does that?
Speaker 2:even mean.
Speaker 1:Okay, our next two are pretty big, pretty big. So behind us is Andrew Bosworth and James Cameron. Bosworth is the CTO of Meta and James Cameron is James Cameron. But he's also not just james cameron, he is also. He has a company called light storm vision, and so this one is interesting because there's a lot going on here, sort of under the surface, and it sounds like one thing, but it really becomes something else when you dive a little bit deeper into it. So Meta is partnering with James Cameron and Lightstorm Vision to scale the creation of 3D entertainment experiences featuring big name IP, spanning live sports, concerts, feature films and tv series. Under the pact. Medic quest will be light storm vision's exclusive mixed reality hardware platform.
Speaker 1:Hmm, okay, so what does that mean?
Speaker 1:What does that mean? I mean, I think when I first read this, it definitely felt like, you know, james Cameron is an excellent match for this, because James Cameron is part of the reason why 3D experiences sort of rebooted in 2009 to begin with, for better or worse. For better or worse, yeah, mind you, he actually didn't start in 2009 to begin with, for better or worse. For better or worse, yeah, mind you, he actually it didn't start in 2009, it actually started about 10 years earlier when he did the terminator 2, the, the ride, the 3d immersive entertainment experience for universal studios that they shot with 70 millimeter cameras in 3d, which is absolutely mind-boggling but and is one of the most impressive immersive entertainment experiences I've ever had the pleasure of experiencing. So cameron's been doing this whole stereo 3d thing for, you know, decades now. Yep, he's really good at, I know, and his work on on avatar sort of rebooted the concept of 3d in people's minds. So him partnering on immersive content seems like a perfect match, yeah, but what does that mean? What do we think?
Speaker 2:I mean, we don't know what it means, right, we don't know what it means, but what it is, it's got to be good, right? That's the only thing I can think of. It's got to be better than what we have, exactly so, like, I don't know what it means, but I'm excited for it regardless, because it's another big name joining in on this and you don't immediately write bigger than james cameron, no, especially we're talking about high-tech stuff I mean, this is like when it comes to, and he's, I'm guessing, I'm guessing that his light storm vision is some sort of amalgamation of production pipeline workflow stuff that he put together for, yeah, films.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because I don't know if you guys know this, but they actually use vr headsets on set for the correction of the avatar. Yeah, for quality control, for previews, for that type of thing, because they also have. They have motion control cameras that work with sort of you can do a live preview of the virtual scene. But sometimes they want to see what the entire environment looks like around them, just in a tiny little square, right, yeah, hmm.
Speaker 4:I think it's huge. I think it's insane yeah, sorry.
Speaker 2:Can you imagine? I mean it's no power glove.
Speaker 3:Oh, okay, so let's not understate the obvious, but it is so bad. It's so bad. Let's not understate the obvious. But it is so bad. It's so bad, let's not understate the obvious when the big oil man came to the West and said I want some of that, and everyone was like what do you mean Are?
Speaker 1:you picturing James Cameron with like a giant, like 10 buck, 10?
Speaker 3:And Daniel Day-Lewis in the trailer Drinking milkshakes my strong. That movie is about milkshakes, my strong suit that movie's about milkshakes right, Dave Bontemps I feel
Speaker 5:my boy.
Speaker 3:Okay, settle down now. I know you're excited.
Speaker 1:I'm excited this is great, I mean, and it also it brings a sense of legitimacy to the format that has, I think, been lacking. And it also brings because here's the thing is, if, if cameron is partnering up with meta, he must have seen some sort of because he could have gone with apple. You know apple. So james can't have done a relationship with disney that's very strong relationship with disney and disney has a very strong relationship with apple. As we already know, they've already put content out, exclusive content on the pro. So he could have gone with apple but he didn't. I wonder why.
Speaker 3:I think that's because he knows there's, there's a. He thinks in years of 10, of decades james cameron doesn't fuss over the details for next week. He thinks what's it going to do in 5-10 years? Avatar, looked at the imdb like what the projection is is what else is meta doing? That's going to take 10 years. That isn't even a product. I mean, can we?
Speaker 2:look what he's wearing yeah, exactly, I think it's about orion. Yeah, it's about the future. It's about, like, where they're headed. He, he must have looked at both and was like, well, this is where I'm going to put my, which is interesting because, or that.
Speaker 1:I just offered him because he's got such a, because he's got such a tactical relationship with Disney already. This is sort of a vote of no confidence in the Apple strategy, or at least it could be interpreted.
Speaker 2:It's a little leverage, right, I am interpreting you yeah, I mean, like I was saying, it also just could be that they give more money right or offer them more money, because meta definitely has the yeah, but so does apple. But see, like apple can be weirdly like closed off about stuff like that.
Speaker 3:So we were just talking about how apple didn't create creator tools for the spatial, for the AVP, and someone else stepped in to do that. Where do you think James Cameron was when that conversation was starting? All across the table. They didn't feel like he fit into that idea. And he's a creator. He also is a film geek and, big glasses aside, it is a match aside, like it is a match Big Lightstorm, you know, having a suite of tools unlike Apple, it's an attractive position for Meta to want to, you know, really invest in it, especially if they have this Moonshot product.
Speaker 1:I feel like we're in the ILM era, working with Lucas in the 70s, you know. It really feels like we're at the cusp of some truly jaw-dropping new storytelling opportunities and I'm excited to be here in this moment.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's awesome.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay, let's move on. This last one was really funny because we already had a really great news week and this one came out a couple days ago, right as we were trying to put everything together, and that is Samsung and Google finally revealed Project MooHan and Android XR. So Android XR is Google's implementation of Android for immersive devices, as well as XR devices going down the road, and Project Moohan is the device built by Samsung that is going to be their sort of competitor to Apple Vision Pro and MetaQuest line. Yeah, not a lot of details revealed thus far. I think they're definitely trying to keep some stuff close to the chest, but we did get some public demos.
Speaker 1:That's what you're seeing behind us From what I see of this. That's all thus far. That's the only new stuff that I see about this platform is that they're really going into. Each of these apps is going to use Gemini in a way that there's probably some implementation behind the scenes that extends the capability of each individual XR app through Gemini, and that's a cool use case, but it seems very ethereal and sort of not the point, I guess.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, I don't know.
Speaker 2:I continue to be dubious of the strengths of AI and I feel like it's being foisted upon us and I don't want a headset that requires it or needs it or is yada, yada, yada. It feels like them just finding another way to get it in there and try to get people to use it like. But I don't know, aside from the light duty stuff that we do use ai for, I don't see a whole lot of benefit. It might have something to do with the fact that generative AI is destroying my industry right now.
Speaker 1:Yeah, as filmmakers, especially ones that are so close to the tech industry.
Speaker 3:it feels very much like you're watching a car crash in real time, but you're in the car but you're in the car sitting here between like what apple is doing and what meta is doing and then not having a good idea what google is doing with gemini, is like a good place to watch that all this unfold.
Speaker 1:Relatively speaking, no pun intended, well they're all doing this, they all have their own ai programs and they're all going to be a huge part of their platforms going forward like they're all going to find their own version of this tomfoolery, you know, and I I'm just heavily skeptical If, if that's all Google has coming to this space. What's the point as far as I'm concerned? Like, I do want there to be competition and I do think that, like we said last month, that there are some things that Google is going to have a huge leg up with than both Meta or Apple.
Speaker 1:They have YouTube, so they have millions of videos at your fingertips and they have also an app store that is almost as big as apple's app store, if not bigger, I'm not sure, actually, um, but, and none of those things do meta have. And that's been a serious problem for meta and because, like, they don't have any like flat tops, that they have access to meta, they don't have any video apps, that there is literally not a legal way to stream 4k videos on your quest 3, yeah, unless it comes from the youtube br app, okay, and there are no movies available on the platform that support that. Zero, I mean you can't.
Speaker 3:You can't watch movies that you don't own personally on your quest 3.
Speaker 2:Okay, because you can get on Netflix, you can get on Prime, you can go on all of them legally so like you can do a rip and you can do this and you can get your films on there, but it's not technically legal. There's no good way of streaming these things except through like what? Big screen, and that's gray area legally at best.
Speaker 1:So like it's not elegant and there used to be, and there's no 4K support. There are no 4K movies available legally that you can watch on the Quest 3. There are 1080p from Amazon and supposedly they upped the bitrate for those movies too recently when they did their new.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but we're still dealing with portals. They did for VR back in 2017 or 16.
Speaker 1:Absurdity True absurdity, I mean we've talked about this in the last part was that Meta has completely boggled like it's been a boondoggle. Their implementation of video content on the Quest with both of those things because there are. There is android tv supports 4k video apps, so that implementation will be baked in from the beginning and the resolution of the screens is going to be high enough that 4k content will matter. And they have youtube. The fact that they have youtube is an unincalculable advantage for them yeah, it's.
Speaker 3:It's a lot like apple and disney coming to the game with, like marvel and not geo already at you know, in the pocket, right? I keep comparing my, my, the simple mind is saying abc, nbc, cbs, apple, google, meta, right. Except the difference is that apple, google and meta don't have the same product. They don't. They're overarching, they're overreaching. They're making strategic deals with like James Cameron, right, who you know. Every time someone makes a move, everything shifts, and they're not competing directly for anything, but just our attention. They all have different ways of doing it. And so why is Google stepping in with Samsung? Are they trying to be like we're still here, we're still up to bat, or are they just doing this to create this illusion that it is an upsell? Like AI is an upsell, like XR is an upsell? I don't know. Like you said, it's ethereal. What are they bringing to the table other than just hardware that looks like another team's product? Yeah, and you know Well.
Speaker 1:I mean, when it comes down to it, samsung had the Gear VR and they also had some HMDs that they built for Windows Mixed Reality and they were some of the better ones for the time reality, and they were some of the better ones for the time. And google had daydream and an early, you know, version of android vr operating system thing on phones and they saw the apple vision pro and they were like shit, we need to get the market yeah, that's exactly, and they're like oh wait, we got these youtube videos yeah, and and they will have.
Speaker 1:Like I said, they will have a leg up once they come to market with those things. But other than those things, I'm not seeing anything. That and this is coming from somebody who has a very baked in ecosystem for Google already and I'm like, and if I'm looking at it and being like, okay, what else you?
Speaker 3:got really. So you don't, you don't see it? There's not a suite of creative tools that are embedded in youtube, that are also, you know, that are spatial like there's.
Speaker 1:It's not there yet well, I have been very frustrated with youtube and Google's immersive video situation for five years now, and so, despite the fact that I do think that they will put immersive video into a leading position on their headset, I do not have faith in them to make sure that that immersive video is properly supported, or at least from a platform says yeah, I mean.
Speaker 2:One of the other things always comes up with in this discussion is like how many people are going to especially developers buy into developing for this platform, knowing when?
Speaker 4:they've been for so many history.
Speaker 2:I mean, if you're a stadia, stadia, whatever, developer. Yeah, that's like so many of those dudes like they found out that their project was dead from the news.
Speaker 1:From the yeah, from the reporting, yeah, and that's absolutely ridiculous. I would be reticent, and I am yeah, and I'm reticent for the same reasons. I do think that this is a little different. This is a little different. I'm hearing a different one of the developers that I mentioned and posted on LinkedIn how they see a very different cultural shift, at least within the XR departments, making this stuff that it feels like this isn't going to be something that they race away from, because I don't think anybody is racing away from.
Speaker 1:XR right now, I think, if anything writing on is on the wall, that xr is coming and it's going to be potentially hundreds of billions of dollars other than ai. I think that xr devices are about to become the next generation of computing devices. Yeah, orion, I think, sort of solidified that, and in this announcement for android xr, they said that this isn't just for this headset, this is a platform that is for all xr devices that are google enabled, going forward right, and not just I mean, mean, like XREAL we were talking about XREAL the last couple episodes they're building Android XR-implemented video glasses. So they just announced a new product, the XREAL 1 Pro, and that has its own custom silicon on it. That's going to be the next generation of that standalone XR platform, but at some point they're going to have an Android XR implementation and so at that point they're now also competing with MetaHorizon OS, because that's also a platform for spatial computing devices.
Speaker 1:So I think that this, despite the fact that I'm not seeing a lot of stuff that really, truly impresses me this seems a lot bigger than just this headset. Yeah, and I think this headset is the least interesting thing about the entire. I mean, they really haven't told us anything because they didn't announce any specs, but even the Android XR implementation itself. I'm a little skeptical on.
Speaker 3:Really so you must, because I agree that this is the most. The headset, the hardware, is the least interesting thing about this live demo leak, this live demo leak. The more interesting to me is XR that Android is going in with a very loose idea, with a very strong database that has been let down repeatedly, and Apple isn't even going to touch that. And Meta is bringing in big guns, big guns like James Cameron, who then want to bring in their own creator.
Speaker 1:My biggest issue is that it just feels like a Trojan horse for AI. It doesn't feel like an XR platform. It just seems to me because here's. The other thing is that they're going to have to have onboard AI cores to do all this translation stuff, because they can't do that stuff to the cloud, because it's going to take too much latency.
Speaker 2:And yet they probably still will. Yeah, I mean look, and this is where I'll swing it back over to Apple. Apple is still using Siri. Siri still talks to the cloud. Siri is still to this day with Apple intelligence garbage. It sucks. And it's half of the reason it sucks is because you have to have an internet connection. So half the time I'm like what's when? I like siri resume blah, blah, blah, and it'll just not do it? Or it's like sorry, I can't do that right now, and I'm like well and I have a very similar experience.
Speaker 1:So gemini took over for the onboard like google system, google assistant in the last year and since they implemented it, my voice recognition capabilities have gone from very usable to exceptionally frustrating. We're seeing a commingling of a lot of different aspects of the FANG companies, their long-term goals sort of being shoehorned into other things that I don't want them shoehorned into. I guess that's just the nature of existing in this TechConnected world in almost 2025. But you know, I guess that's what it is.
Speaker 1:All right, you know what? This is a great episode. I've really. We had a lot of fun. We're talking to Jared in a couple minutes here. He's going to talk about the Talent Stealer, about how that project came together. A lot of really great insight there. Hi, welcome to the Stereoscope Podcast episode 10 interview with Jared Payne. He's here from the Talent Stealer. You're the co-producer, if I'm correct. That's correct. Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1:I really appreciate you guys of course and so the talent stealer is a feature. Right, that's been cut up into sections, that's correct, and currently we saw the first about half hour.
Speaker 5:And so, jared, why don't you just, at first, just like walk us a little bit through what the project is and sort of how it coalesced and came to be sure, yeah, absolutely so for those who haven't seen it it's it's part one of a feature-length film story, a live action narrative sci-fi based their own ip, written by by us and directed by us and produced by us for the vr 180 format. And also you know, I know that's a loose term nowadays because there's so many you know, uh, other vr 180 type things, but when we started, there was just this is what you got to work with and here's your cameras. So so I like to see everything progressing and adapting to these new fields, but that's what it's made for. That's for immersion and being able to watch a movie and be part of that experience. Other than that, it's been shot all locally here in Vancouver. I'm in it, brianna is the main actress, which we can talk about later, and then David is the director, and those are kind of the three principles of our company and of the film.
Speaker 5:So, when? When do you guys get started? When did you? When did you kind of coincide with, like, how I got involved with this? So, back in about 2018, david, with with working with these cameras and trying to figure out how they work and doing all these experimental shots, and so brianna called me up and had me come out and work with her and David, as we just were doing camera tests and we hit it off really great and then I think it was the beginning of 2019, we started shooting and we took some of the ideas from our camera test and then we mashed in all these scenes we wanted to shoot. We figured out what camera worked best with what scene and how to move the camera and all that stuff. So it kind of just evolved from us doing camera tests and smashing a script into these amazing shots that we wanted to do and then we shot it.
Speaker 5:Kind of weird, we kind of shot it like weekend to weekends because at the time we had no way to like, do like on set playback. It didn't exist that software but it it was like a real like wild west situation for us, because no one was doing what we were doing. We were like figuring out what everybody was saying and then we'd like break rules and try new things and and really push the boundary of what we could do with those cameras and what we could do as far as like acting and stunts and storytelling and all this live action stuff that at the time was like, you know, you could do a theater play or you could do a static shot here or you could do, you know, a four minute segment without making people throw up and lose their lunch. So we really wanted to make sure that we could bring that cinematic quality, that feel that you get from, you know, the first time you go and see star wars, that immersion that you have from the first time you go and see Star Wars, that immersion that you have into the reality of what you're watching. And so that's what we were trying to do and hopefully when you watch it you can feel that and you get pulled in.
Speaker 5:And on that, when we were doing these shots and you can watch, if we put in chronological order of what we shot, you'll see our camera movements and our developments and our acting and all this stuff kind of get much, much better. Unfortunately, the the show's all cut up, so sometimes you have like, oh, you can see, our camera isn't quite as good in scene number three, you know, but oh, and scene four, it's amazing. And then back to five, it's, it's good again, but yeah, so we really like progress and evolved in our crafts over the course of that year as we shot that so that that takes us into a couple of the other questions is what cameras did you use?
Speaker 5:uh, we used about 10 to 12 different cameras. We really kind of like we would use a camera, shoot something like, oh, this doesn't do what we want it to do. We even like, okay, we had a couple cameras that we talked to the manufacturers and like, hey, we need you to change this, and then we'll buy it and then send it out to us. So we had some custom-made stuff right from the manufacturers that we did. This is like, I think, most of this before, like the canon, like r5 stuff kind of came out. So we we had like the k1 and the k2 pro yeah, we started with the k1 as well, actually yeah.
Speaker 5:So, like we use a lot of cameras, those are probably like our main kind of go to, because some of the things in those you can really like change and and and we'd really fiddle with it Right, so that we get what we wanted out of it, cause a lot of cameras weren't designed to do what we're doing with them Right, like they weren't designed to move or get the frame rates or get the light and all that kind of stuff. So we yeah again david. David was one that took care of like 90 of that. He's a genius when it comes to this stuff and I just get punched in the face for fun, right. So how'd you feel?
Speaker 3:about some of those takes that ended up on the cutting room floor, so to speak, because I know that, as an actor, if you're, if you're working with a two-minute take, right, and it's a simple like three-person scene and I don't know someone sneezes or coughs or like makes you know just, or I don't know, there's a, there's a cord on the ground right or you know, there's all these things. You can go, you know, left or right, or up or down, and I'm just like what is it? What was it like to shoot the same scene, like the torture scene? How many times did you have to, like inject that needle? Did it ever go?
Speaker 3:You know, like, did the, the makeup get messy? Did you know? Did it like, was there an errant hair, a strand that just got in the way? You know, because, because everything is super polished and you know, great it's, the performances are really really solid and grounded. We can almost like how are they doing this, knowing all this is experimental and like this could be, like this you could, you could barf, you know yeah, I mean that's the first part of the question like what made it on the cutting through the cutting room floor on into the final product.
Speaker 5:Yeah, there's things like, personally, that I'm not like, oh, that's not my best work, or oh, I didn't like that scene, and some of that was just because we couldn't get back to that location. You know we had limited access, limited time, and so you know we worked with what we had and I mean David is a phenomenal director Everything that we did, especially when it comes to, like, the blocking and the instructions on set the lighting was probably one of our big things that really took a lot of work to do in, in with the blocking, and hopefully you don't notice that, because we put a lot of effort into making sure that everything was, you know, seamless as we could. But those like yeah, some of those are long takes and some of them because there's so much to process, not only in the camera but as an actor, with what you're playing with, you know your field of view and and you're blocking yeah, it could be really challenging. Yeah, but also like seeing that like a week later, when you could actually see it, you know, like it was really rewarding, because you're like okay, why am I doing it this way? Why am I moving in this certain pattern? Why am I doing like things that on a regular set I would probably get called out for like, hey, jared, stop doing that, you look like an idiot. But here, if I didn't do that, my motion with the camera would like throw the audience off, it would make the pacing seem different, it would make the motion of the camera seem over the top in one direction of the other. So it really like again, like was really experimental, without you know making it to like oh, look how great we did.
Speaker 5:But like we really didn't want this to feel like a play. You know, we didn't want to feel like this, like a low budget play that we just slapped together. We really wanted to make sure that everything you experience in camera would translate, like one for one, right into what a cinematic feel would be in a regular movie that people don't notice in regular movies blocking very much or the light work or or stuff like that but it apparently in, you know, in the vr format it really really pops when that stuff isn't on point. So that was our big goal and so, as an actor and, you know, helping out with other aspects of of the filming. It was a phenomenal learning curve.
Speaker 5:It was and you know david like baby. He basically carried me, you know, kicking and screaming the whole way, and I'm very grateful for him because I feel like I've acquired a whole new set of skills as an actor and a producer. And you know gaff and a best boy and like all these other things. I'm like, hey, I didn't know how to do that before. Now we're doing it on like a moving set, which is again something that is ridiculous. You'd never do on a real shoot, right?
Speaker 1:So I noticed that there there's a huge amount of stunts in this, and that's sort of something you wouldn't expect from this sort of scale of projects. How did, how did that happen?
Speaker 5:Uh, this sort of scale of projects. How did how did that happen? Uh, I mean, I I'm gonna say that was brianna. Brianna went the main, second main producer. There she is, she's a phenom, she's a title wave of awesomeness.
Speaker 5:And, uh, she called in like tons of favors. Like we have thousands of imdb credits in this film, just with all the favors that we, we called in for people to come and help us. Like, if there's a tv show that you guys have watched in the last 10, 15 favors that we, we called in for people to come and help us. Like, if there's a tv show that you guys have watched in the last 10, 15 years that's been filmed in vancouver, we have someone that's been in that tv show. Just because you know, vanna has a great community and she called in a lot of favors.
Speaker 5:Like I started out as a favor hey, come and help us do this camera test and then, you know, things clicked. I ended up sticking around, which was great, but, yeah, stunned, community is an awesome community here in Vancouver and we love working with each other, we love doing these little side projects, and so we had a lot of people volunteering their time and really just making these kind of super elaborate shots workable and, again, like, moving in a VR environment is a little bit different than your regular 2d stuff. So it was, I'd say, a little bit more challenging than what I'm used to. Just, you know, you can't hide stuff in depth of field and, yeah, and you can't get away with as much stuff. It's got to be. There's a lot of positive contact and a lot of cool stuff that you have to do, but yeah, it was a really a really wonderful thing to see the community come together to help with this, which started as like a passion project and doing weird camera tests, and turn into this amazing, amazing thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so this sort of works off, that last little bit is that what was what was easier or harder than was anticipated, like, what were some things that you went in thinking like, oh, this is going to be simple, and then it ended up being a disaster?
Speaker 5:I mean, like some of the simple choreography for some of the fights. It's like it's not complicated, it's not hard, we can every single stunt performer can do it in their sleep Like these weren't big things. But then you do it in that depth of field and all of a sudden, all the you know, all the camera stacking and all that kind of stuff, all the things that you would do to make this look really clean it just doesn't look as clean as it as it would in a regular camera. So, like you have to re revamp those kind of things and kind of learn on the fly and be able to adjust. And again, because we couldn't see this, we really had to, like do our best to anticipate how things was going to look when we knew, when we knew it wasn't going to turn out the way we wanted, like, okay, well, let's do one more, that's, you know, 30 deeper or 30 closer, or just like, let's overlap this even more, let's get even, like, even more, you know, visceral about this, because we don't know if our regular techniques are going to translate well.
Speaker 5:For me, I think one of the big things was like the amount of blocking that went into every shot was like, astronomical like, because every single footstep, every single sway of the hips, everything that you did, translates so much bigger and so much more important when you're shooting the vr. So that for me was like I can get away with, you know, being a lazy performer or lazy actor on a tv show, which I've never done, but you can't get away with that kind of stuff here. So it really made sure that everybody was on their A game all the time, and I'm not very good with lines, I am an action man, I like to get punched, I like to fall down, whatever that's my cup of tea. So, having to do dialogue which, thank God I didn't have a lot of dialogue it was a real challenge to keep four or five different things in your head that are above what you've been doing for the last, you know, years in regular television. So, yeah, that was that was a challenge.
Speaker 1:One thing, one thing that I like. So I I started in theater. I started in theater when I was a teenager and one of those things that they tell you is that you know you have to go big and then, the first time you ever work in front of a camera, they tell you the exact opposite, and then it feels like in VR. There are elements of both theater and film in VR, but then you have to get either even smaller, it seems, because every single movement with that depth has so much more weight to it. I feel like there's a significant amount of theatricality in stunt performers and there's a style, especially in Vancouver or Hollywood-based projects, and that stuff picks up so much bigger when I was watching it than I guess you would think of yeah, I mean.
Speaker 5:I mean you see that with a lot of vr projects now, as you see, you see that theater element come out when people are acting and when people are moving and like I'm not a big fan of theater, I think it had this place and I think there's phenomenal theater productions out there. I just saw one, like the other night with my wife and it was great. But I'm not a theater actor, I I wouldn't go on a choice unless my wife asked me to go, you know. So seeing that in VR for me is is the reason why I like projects like ours that are more cinematic and they don't feel like you're going to the theater. And and again, because those two translate so well. It's very easy to step into those theater boots when you're doing VR and some of those things translate really really well and some of them don't, like you were saying.
Speaker 5:And I think it really comes down to like having a good director that can pick that out and see what works in every single situation. Because I do some super theater stuff in there and I'm like I would never do this, and sometimes I do some really small stuff, like you're talking about that. I think, oh, this isn't enough because this is, you know, below the bar for what I needed to to sell this on a regular camera. It is a very intuitive process and that, since I'm not a director, I just am very thankful that david was able to like pick that stuff up so quickly and be able to make that adjustment so fast. And you'll see that again if we could show a chronological viewing of what we shot and how the acting and the directing just does this amazing ramp up and yeah, so, jared, I have a question for you as an actor again.
Speaker 3:Your performance as a, you know, a tough guy, really grounded like I, you know, a man of few words, a bit taciturn, it works right, um, because you. But how is your experience doing? How's your experience on set on this production compared to some of your other work? Like, I've seen, we've talked about big, small theater, we've talked about film sets and vr, but, like, was this experience wildly different than being in on a stage or being on a sound stage? Or would you say that as an actor, you pretty much just had to employ the same set of training tools and techniques and just, you know, yeah, I mean, yes, it's, it's the same tool bag but it is quite different.
Speaker 5:and maybe it's because I had, like a lot of other hats I was wearing at the time, whether I was helping david with camera work or lighting or or whatever it was that I was doing that was beyond simply acting or helping, you know, coordinate the stunts or whatnot whatever it was that I was doing got me into the headspace that David and I really connected really well and be able to coordinate these things, and so our communication was was really phenomenal. And I like, when it comes to stunts, like I'm not an A A-list stunt performer, you know I'm, I'm I'm much lower down the totem pole here. You know I'm not doubling. You know Chris Evans or any of those guys like that, I'm yeah.
Speaker 3:Yellow belt right. No, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 5:I mean, I've had a couple of really phenomenal actors that I've doubled and I'm super grateful for that and I'd love to do more. Uh, bruce Willis would like my personal idol growing up and I got to double him on one of his last shows and that was like a dream come true. And then, of course, he retired, which was incredibly sad. Uh, but this show getting back to the point here yeah, it was unlike anything I've ever done before. The amount of responsibility that I had and since I'm playing like basically the number two that again is very high up on that call sheet and the amount of responsibility that came with that working directly with the director, working directly with the director, working directly with the light crew and with the writers as well, like all that kind of stuff. I actually helped write some of the scenes to make it fit into the camera motion and make it fit with the dialogue and my character as well.
Speaker 5:Because of the limitations of VR or the new road that VR could take us into, would I say that a regular actor could do this? Absolutely. It's just an easy transition. That's what we're designed to do is to be able to come and adapt and take what's on the page and turn it into something physical and visual, but there is definitely a learning curve to it, and so, even with that, we'd have people come on and do little little acting bits or little stunt bits, and then I'd be like, okay, here's what I learned over the last year. Let's try to incorporate that really quickly into what you're doing. So, yeah, absolutely, I think. I think it's a brand new, a brand new medium, which, you know, is kind of why we're doing this anthony, do you have any question?
Speaker 2:yeah, you know, the thing I was just thinking about was some of the reasons why y'all decided to go with uh releasing via an app instead of just putting it up on quest tv or something like that. Yeah, can you walk us through that?
Speaker 5:distribution yeah yeah, well, we didn't want to be limited because we are our. We are a studio. We didn't want to be limited to whatever anyone else decided to do right and even still, like, with the politics of what's happening in vr. And then you know major companies battling each other and we are, like, officially, the you know, the grassroots underdog in this situation. We're not a trillion dollar company. We can't compete with that. So if they, if they turn off whatever medium it is that they want to turn off to keep anybody out of the industry, they can do that, and so us.
Speaker 5:That was one of the reasons it took an extra year for us to to really release was to make sure that our app was, like, flawless and that we could have that self-distribution and we weren't relying on other people. I think that brings us like up a tier as far as, like, creative control goes over our product, and for us that was really important so that everybody can have it and not just be limited to whoever's in charge of whatever store says is available. It's one of the reasons why it took us so long to do this soft launch this year. I mean, we had everything.
Speaker 5:The film in my mind was ready to go two years ago right around COVID. I'm like this is the perfect time, let's launch. And we're like, oh, the app's not ready. Let's get the app 100 you know, no bugs and and make sure that we can put it on every head system that comes out, so that you know we can get the best bang for our buck and the best um viewer experience, rather than just getting it out. I mean, we got it out and we have the. You know, we have all the award shows that we sent it to and it was on Fiverr and private releases and stuff like that. But this soft launch was only possible because we had the app.
Speaker 1:Finally Now, really quick before we go. So there's a few other people. Can you tell us a little bit more about David and Brianna?
Speaker 5:Yeah, sure, brianna is. She's a stunt performer from Vancouver. She is a phenomenal human being and she was one of the main producers. She and David kind of kind of built this from the ground up and then brought me in about six months into the into the project with doing camera tests and stuff like that. So she has she's been in the biz longer than I have. Again. She's amazing to work with. She's super talented. Just you know, watch the thing and and see like she's a phenomenal stunt performer and a phenomenal actress.
Speaker 1:You know, we were just talking about james cameron in in the earlier segment and I heard there might be some interesting connection there yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 5:Uh, there was a movie that was filmed here a while back. Predators uh, was it predators?
Speaker 1:the predator.
Speaker 5:I think it was the camera which one was and she, she's in an end sequence. That got cut and they replaced it with the current one, which I think is like an armor thing that comes out, but she comes out of the pod as newt from the james Aliens franchise. Okay, yeah, lines, and it was really cool Like heartbreaking for me and obviously for her that they got replaced with her name. But yeah, you can find it online and that's the Shane Black movie, right, you guys can see that. The one from 2019.
Speaker 1:It's really cool. Yeah, that's the Shane Black movie from like 2019, right. Yeah, yeah, really cool. Yeah, that's the shane black movie from like 2019, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, I heard that there was a deleted scene about that, a couple I was really. I was reading, after alien romeos came out, that there was this whole other sequence for the predator that that said that newt survived and I was like what newt survived?
Speaker 5:yeah, she, she got to do that, which is amazing, and and what about?
Speaker 1:and what about david? What about david?
Speaker 5:david is again one of those rare enigmas of just passion and talent wrapped up in little bundle.
Speaker 5:In my experience, he's like one of my favorite directors I've worked with. He's a phenomenal, phenomenal human being and just immensely talented. And he's from the uk and he's worked in the indie scene for a number of years and he has, like amazing ideas and he's like it's hard to put in words until you, until you've worked with him, about how like gifted he is and how visionary he is. Like he's one of those people that you know and in my mind he needs to be be discovered like a James Cameron type person that has this ability to turn ideas and concepts into movie magic. So I'm really excited for anything else that I get to work with him in is a real joy and a treat for me to do that and hopefully this product, the Talent Stealers, gets to put a little bit of that on display for everybody else and then hopefully we get to see a lot more out of him, because I really think he's a. Yeah, it's really fun to work with him, I got to tell you.
Speaker 1:All right. Well, Jared, we have one more thing. Y'all brought a clip right. It's the trailer of the film. You can also access it on MetaTV, but we're going to drop in an immersive, the immersive clip in right here and we'll join you in a couple minutes after it's done.
Speaker 4:Thank, you, I'm sorry, one of us.
Speaker 6:This is not a story of good and evil, of right and wrong, some might say of survival Run, don't stop, escape. But it's not. I was running towards something, something I was never supposed to have, Something they made me forget. I hadn't known what freedom was. I'd only seen it through other people's eyes, felt it through other people's experiences. But now I know, now I remember. I allowed myself to feel the illusion of a thousand taken memories. But the truth is I was far from free.
Speaker 1:Thank you, so, and we're back from the clip. Thank you for being with us, jared. It was phenomenal having you here. The talent stealer is a really you know. When I saw the trailer for it, I was like, wow, this is something special, this is interesting, and you know, you were doing things in this that I have not seen in any immersive production ever, and it seems like you really got to play, and we are very jealous of your ability to be able to do those types of things, and we're coming up on your heels, but not quite yet.
Speaker 2:Awesome to see how y'all have pushed the format forward and proving that you can tell stories in this format.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's really impressive. So, Jared, thank you so much for being with us, and we'll see you around.
Speaker 5:Yeah, thank you guys for having me. Absolute pleasure, of course.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much. This is Serious Scope Podcast number 10. Signing off.